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	<title>Comments on: Jesus and the Bible</title>
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	<link>http://www.biblicalfoundations.org/blog/bible/64</link>
	<description>ALERT: Dr. Köstenberger’s blogs are now becoming available in Spanish. We will continue to add new posts as soon as they can be translated. Click on “Espanol” above</description>
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		<title>By: Rob Bradshaw</title>
		<link>http://www.biblicalfoundations.org/blog/bible/64/comment-page-1#comment-1733</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Bradshaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Aug 2006 13:16:35 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Many thanks for this. To me any argument about &quot;How did people become Christians before the NT was written?&quot; ignores the evidence of the NT itself. Before the NT was written the OT was the Bible of the early church and was their authority (e.g. Acts 17:11).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Many thanks for this. To me any argument about &#8220;How did people become Christians before the NT was written?&#8221; ignores the evidence of the NT itself. Before the NT was written the OT was the Bible of the early church and was their authority (e.g. Acts 17:11).</p>
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		<title>By: david ritsema</title>
		<link>http://www.biblicalfoundations.org/blog/bible/64/comment-page-1#comment-1712</link>
		<dc:creator>david ritsema</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Aug 2006 01:49:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I must agree with Mike Bird.  A Christocentric hermeneutic is more central to Christian faith.  I am painfully aware of this ongoing discussion in Baptist life.  Behind the scenes, the debate is not so much about Jesus versus the Bible, but about whether or not the sayings or teaching of Jesus are as authoritative as the rest of scripture.  Jesus indicated in the Sermon on the Mount that previous &quot;inspired&quot; teachings from the OT were misunderstood and in some cases not even to be taken as authoritative any longer.  He reinterpreted commandments regarding divorce, oaths, etc.  We need a hermeneutic as Baptists which keeps Jesus at our center.  We cannot say that Ecclesiastes is equally authoritative in the life of believer as the clear teaching of Jesus in the Gospels.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I must agree with Mike Bird.  A Christocentric hermeneutic is more central to Christian faith.  I am painfully aware of this ongoing discussion in Baptist life.  Behind the scenes, the debate is not so much about Jesus versus the Bible, but about whether or not the sayings or teaching of Jesus are as authoritative as the rest of scripture.  Jesus indicated in the Sermon on the Mount that previous &#8220;inspired&#8221; teachings from the OT were misunderstood and in some cases not even to be taken as authoritative any longer.  He reinterpreted commandments regarding divorce, oaths, etc.  We need a hermeneutic as Baptists which keeps Jesus at our center.  We cannot say that Ecclesiastes is equally authoritative in the life of believer as the clear teaching of Jesus in the Gospels.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Bird</title>
		<link>http://www.biblicalfoundations.org/blog/bible/64/comment-page-1#comment-1674</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Bird</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Aug 2006 21:35:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.biblicalfoundations.org/?p=64#comment-1674</guid>
		<description>Andreas,

Hmmm. I&#039;m not so sure on that. I certainly agree that any dichotomy between Jesus and the Bible is unnecessary. The Word incarnate and the Word encovenanted are both the Word of God afterall. I equally dislike the &quot;I don&#039;t need your Bible verses or theology, jut give me Jesus&quot; attitude which is ignorance masquerading as piety.

On the other hand, I cannot find any reason to postulate a bibliocentric theology over a Christocentric one, which is like confusing the messenger with the message (though I&#039;m not suggesting you advocate this). Jesus is the centrepiece of Scripture and is simultaneously the goal of Scripture and the lens through which it must be interpreted through. When you write: &quot;I doubt that Jesus himself would have subscribed to a view that placed him above Scripture&quot; - I have to disagree. The formulae in the Gospels, &quot;You have heard it said, but I say unto you ...&quot; presupposes the authority of Jesus over Scripture to either (a) provide the proper interpretation of Scripture; or (b) to intensify or nullify certain commandments in light of the new eschatological situation that Jesus himself has inaugurated. A question I often set my students is: &quot;Does Jesus ever prohibit what the Law allows, and does Jesus ever allow what the Law prohibits?&quot; The answer of course is &#039;Yes&#039;! Jesus&#039; actions on the sabbath, though obviously exceptional and not anti-law per se, are anchored in a sense of unmediated divine authority that not only circumvents the Law and Prophets but even surpasses them. That&#039;s not piting Jesus against the Bible, but Jesus speaks both for God and as God and where the imperatives of Torah and Kingdom conflict, Jesus can overrule.

Likewise, the comment: &quot;if the Bible were central, how could people have come to faith in Jesus Christ before the New Testament was written?&quot; is hardly moot but a good point. We cannot anachronistically retroject our own circumstances into the first millenia of the Christian era. Not all Christians had access to all the Scriptures. The lists of Christian writings in the papyri and codices make that much clear. Did Christians who knew the Apostles creed but didn&#039;t have a copy of Matthew-Revelation at their disposal know Jesus? Did Christians who only had copies of the Pauline letters know Jesus? I think Jesus is known from both the word proclaimed and the word inscripturated - in the NT both are treated as the authoritative &quot;Word&quot;. 

That&#039;s my take on the subject. Thanks for that thought-provoking post. Anything that gets Christians talking about and discussing the Bible and Jesus has to be good. Perhaps you should write a monograph on the topic afterall!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andreas,</p>
<p>Hmmm. I&#8217;m not so sure on that. I certainly agree that any dichotomy between Jesus and the Bible is unnecessary. The Word incarnate and the Word encovenanted are both the Word of God afterall. I equally dislike the &#8220;I don&#8217;t need your Bible verses or theology, jut give me Jesus&#8221; attitude which is ignorance masquerading as piety.</p>
<p>On the other hand, I cannot find any reason to postulate a bibliocentric theology over a Christocentric one, which is like confusing the messenger with the message (though I&#8217;m not suggesting you advocate this). Jesus is the centrepiece of Scripture and is simultaneously the goal of Scripture and the lens through which it must be interpreted through. When you write: &#8220;I doubt that Jesus himself would have subscribed to a view that placed him above Scripture&#8221; &#8211; I have to disagree. The formulae in the Gospels, &#8220;You have heard it said, but I say unto you &#8230;&#8221; presupposes the authority of Jesus over Scripture to either (a) provide the proper interpretation of Scripture; or (b) to intensify or nullify certain commandments in light of the new eschatological situation that Jesus himself has inaugurated. A question I often set my students is: &#8220;Does Jesus ever prohibit what the Law allows, and does Jesus ever allow what the Law prohibits?&#8221; The answer of course is &#8216;Yes&#8217;! Jesus&#8217; actions on the sabbath, though obviously exceptional and not anti-law per se, are anchored in a sense of unmediated divine authority that not only circumvents the Law and Prophets but even surpasses them. That&#8217;s not piting Jesus against the Bible, but Jesus speaks both for God and as God and where the imperatives of Torah and Kingdom conflict, Jesus can overrule.</p>
<p>Likewise, the comment: &#8220;if the Bible were central, how could people have come to faith in Jesus Christ before the New Testament was written?&#8221; is hardly moot but a good point. We cannot anachronistically retroject our own circumstances into the first millenia of the Christian era. Not all Christians had access to all the Scriptures. The lists of Christian writings in the papyri and codices make that much clear. Did Christians who knew the Apostles creed but didn&#8217;t have a copy of Matthew-Revelation at their disposal know Jesus? Did Christians who only had copies of the Pauline letters know Jesus? I think Jesus is known from both the word proclaimed and the word inscripturated &#8211; in the NT both are treated as the authoritative &#8220;Word&#8221;. </p>
<p>That&#8217;s my take on the subject. Thanks for that thought-provoking post. Anything that gets Christians talking about and discussing the Bible and Jesus has to be good. Perhaps you should write a monograph on the topic afterall!</p>
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		<title>By: Lingamish</title>
		<link>http://www.biblicalfoundations.org/blog/bible/64/comment-page-1#comment-1667</link>
		<dc:creator>Lingamish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Aug 2006 14:22:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Andreas, this is a really well written post and I&#039;m glad this was my entry point into this issue.  Somehow comparing Jesus to the Bible is strikes me like comparing Chevy to Beethoven!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andreas, this is a really well written post and I&#8217;m glad this was my entry point into this issue.  Somehow comparing Jesus to the Bible is strikes me like comparing Chevy to Beethoven!</p>
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		<title>By: Alan</title>
		<link>http://www.biblicalfoundations.org/blog/bible/64/comment-page-1#comment-1658</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Aug 2006 01:53:05 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>To pit Jesus against the Bible is counter intuitive, but so often that is where the discussion digresses. This does not limit Jesus to just what is written, but it does correctly locate that all knowledge about Jesus is controlled by the biblical text. Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To pit Jesus against the Bible is counter intuitive, but so often that is where the discussion digresses. This does not limit Jesus to just what is written, but it does correctly locate that all knowledge about Jesus is controlled by the biblical text. Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Threads from Henry&#8217;s Web &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Jesus is God and the Bible Is Not</title>
		<link>http://www.biblicalfoundations.org/blog/bible/64/comment-page-1#comment-1647</link>
		<dc:creator>Threads from Henry&#8217;s Web &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Jesus is God and the Bible Is Not</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Aug 2006 23:34:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.biblicalfoundations.org/?p=64#comment-1647</guid>
		<description>[...] A friend called my attention to a blog, Biblical Foundations, where Dr. Andreas Kostenberger posts. There he has a post titled Jesus and the Bible, in which he complains of people making Jesus more central to Christian theology than the Bible, a complaint which he could certainly level at me. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] A friend called my attention to a blog, Biblical Foundations, where Dr. Andreas Kostenberger posts. There he has a post titled Jesus and the Bible, in which he complains of people making Jesus more central to Christian theology than the Bible, a complaint which he could certainly level at me. [...]</p>
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