Comments on: To Tithe or not to Tithe? (with David Croteau) http://www.biblicalfoundations.org/blog/the-church/to-tithe-or-not-to-tithe-with-david-croteau ALERT: Dr. Köstenberger’s blogs are now becoming available in Spanish. We will continue to add new posts as soon as they can be translated. Click on “Espanol” above Thu, 25 Feb 2010 18:35:08 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: DR Joseph DiPoala SR http://www.biblicalfoundations.org/blog/the-church/to-tithe-or-not-to-tithe-with-david-croteau/comment-page-1#comment-97255 DR Joseph DiPoala SR Sun, 10 Jan 2010 16:20:49 +0000 http://www.biblicalfoundations.org/?p=75#comment-97255 Net income tithing is a prudent guideline for stewardship of our God given blessings. To love others as God loves us means to share our gifts with the Body of Christ. Tithing along with a structured family budget is a fiscal discipline that will benefit the entire family to save, spend on essentials of food and shelter, and avoid the temptations of excess spending on material goods or pleasure before the former. Moral discipline is the basis of Christian lifestyle for maintaining a healthy body and soul. The teachings of Christ and his statutes are a necessary ownership manual for successful human life and eternity. Net income tithing is a prudent guideline for stewardship of our God given blessings. To love others as God loves us means to share our gifts with the Body of Christ. Tithing along with a structured family budget is a fiscal discipline that will benefit the entire family to save, spend on essentials of food and shelter, and avoid the temptations of excess spending on material goods or pleasure before the former. Moral discipline is the basis of Christian lifestyle for maintaining a healthy body and soul. The teachings of Christ and his statutes are a necessary ownership manual for successful human life and eternity.

]]> By: Frank Bartlett http://www.biblicalfoundations.org/blog/the-church/to-tithe-or-not-to-tithe-with-david-croteau/comment-page-1#comment-86921 Frank Bartlett Sun, 09 Aug 2009 22:45:22 +0000 http://www.biblicalfoundations.org/?p=75#comment-86921 In today's modern church we have left grace and have swayed to the side of expecting / demanding God to bless us because we have performed a good deed (giving money is just / only a good deed). Jesus said "ask and you will receive". The danger of prosperity teaching (that God will bless you if you tithe) is spreading everywhere. People are losing faith when it doesn't work for them and others are falling from grace to legalism expecting rewards for so called obedience. The gospel is not about preaching obedience to rules (as was the law), but about preaching God's love, forgiveness, and redemption into a relationship with the Father. Pastors and preachers need to stand up against this cancer of legalism before it contaminates the whole body of believers. Those preachers/teachers who believe the lies about tithing make a quick jump to think Jesus was rich and that is why they live the way the do. They think "blessings" from God is due to their obedience to the tithe issue. They have benefited from that message because they are on the receiving end not on the giving end. These preachers have taken from the sheep and have blessed themselves with lavish living. They have thought to themselves that "gain is godliness". In today’s modern church we have left grace and have swayed to the side of expecting / demanding God to bless us because we have performed a good deed (giving money is just / only a good deed). Jesus said “ask and you will receive”. The danger of prosperity teaching (that God will bless you if you tithe) is spreading everywhere. People are losing faith when it doesn’t work for them and others are falling from grace to legalism expecting rewards for so called obedience. The gospel is not about preaching obedience to rules (as was the law), but about preaching God’s love, forgiveness, and redemption into a relationship with the Father. Pastors and preachers need to stand up against this cancer of legalism before it contaminates the whole body of believers. Those preachers/teachers who believe the lies about tithing make a quick jump to think Jesus was rich and that is why they live the way the do. They think “blessings” from God is due to their obedience to the tithe issue. They have benefited from that message because they are on the receiving end not on the giving end. These preachers have taken from the sheep and have blessed themselves with lavish living. They have thought to themselves that “gain is godliness”.

]]> By: Billy http://www.biblicalfoundations.org/blog/the-church/to-tithe-or-not-to-tithe-with-david-croteau/comment-page-1#comment-78208 Billy Wed, 03 Dec 2008 02:04:18 +0000 http://www.biblicalfoundations.org/?p=75#comment-78208 I have personally been the recipient of so many miraculous and astounding blessing from God throughout my life. I believe that we should all be lead too give as the Holy Spirit moves us and guides us to; joyfully and willingly. Not out of obligation. I accepted Christ along time ago and the one instances that sticks out in my mind is when I was lead too give a very large sum of money that I really could not afford. I was lead to give because of a identified need for a missions group in my church. The gift was sacrificial and I gave as much as I could. I truly believe that God knew at that moment that if I could have given the close off my back then I would have. I gave without expecting anything in return. Several months past and I received the largest pay raise and promotion I have ever recieved in my life. As many others have stated, tithing has to be done with the right attitude or whatever your giving will not mean anything to God. He gave us his Son! We have to maintain a willing and humble spirit with whatever were able to give back to the Lord. Its all his! I have personally been the recipient of so many miraculous and astounding blessing from God throughout my life. I believe that we should all be lead too give as the Holy Spirit moves us and guides us to; joyfully and willingly. Not out of obligation. I accepted Christ along time ago and the one instances that sticks out in my mind is when I was lead too give a very large sum of money that I really could not afford. I was lead to give because of a identified need for a missions group in my church. The gift was sacrificial and I gave as much as I could. I truly believe that God knew at that moment that if I could have given the close off my back then I would have. I gave without expecting anything in return. Several months past and I received the largest pay raise and promotion I have ever recieved in my life. As many others have stated, tithing has to be done with the right attitude or whatever your giving will not mean anything to God. He gave us his Son! We have to maintain a willing and humble spirit with whatever were able to give back to the Lord. Its all his!

]]> By: Mayordomía cristiana y ofrendar como un acto de adoración « El Evangelio Segun Jesucristo http://www.biblicalfoundations.org/blog/the-church/to-tithe-or-not-to-tithe-with-david-croteau/comment-page-1#comment-62614 Mayordomía cristiana y ofrendar como un acto de adoración « El Evangelio Segun Jesucristo Fri, 11 Jul 2008 16:17:24 +0000 http://www.biblicalfoundations.org/?p=75#comment-62614 [...] (presione aquí y aquí para mayor información al respecto), así como de una columna digital o blog que reúne sus puntos de vista en este campo, y que están publicados en su página [...] [...] (presione aquí y aquí para mayor información al respecto), así como de una columna digital o blog que reúne sus puntos de vista en este campo, y que están publicados en su página [...]

]]> By: Dane http://www.biblicalfoundations.org/blog/the-church/to-tithe-or-not-to-tithe-with-david-croteau/comment-page-1#comment-59263 Dane Mon, 23 Jun 2008 09:11:56 +0000 http://www.biblicalfoundations.org/?p=75#comment-59263 I am a Wesleyan Minister so I understand where you are coming from. I whole heartedly support what the Nazarene Church stands for in this area of the tithe. The reasons you claim there are no tithing references in the NT church is correct. The NT never needed to address the point when people where practicing the tithe. You need to be consistent. You say that the NT clearly teaches that “we are to give as the Spirit leads us to give.” Your references are dealing with request for offerings to the Jerusalem church under persecution or giving to people in need. I do not believe you can have it both ways. Most if not all references in Paul’s letters have nothing to do with the local church funding. All I ask for is consistency. Those who do not believe in the tithe use references that have no context for giving to the local church in supporting the local church government. All those NT references on giving, if we want to be contextual, are relating to how we are to give our free will offerings that go to missions or people in need, and have nothing to do with funding the local church and it’s staff. If the Nazarenes choose to support their pastors by teaching tithing as a principle of giving, and you will receive your salary from those offerings then it is imperative that you are a minister of integrity and you practice what you preach. I am a Wesleyan Minister so I understand where you are coming from. I whole heartedly support what the Nazarene Church stands for in this area of the tithe. The reasons you claim there are no tithing references in the NT church is correct. The NT never needed to address the point when people where practicing the tithe. You need to be consistent. You say that the NT clearly teaches that “we are to give as the Spirit leads us to give.” Your references are dealing with request for offerings to the Jerusalem church under persecution or giving to people in need. I do not believe you can have it both ways. Most if not all references in Paul’s letters have nothing to do with the local church funding. All I ask for is consistency. Those who do not believe in the tithe use references that have no context for giving to the local church in supporting the local church government. All those NT references on giving, if we want to be contextual, are relating to how we are to give our free will offerings that go to missions or people in need, and have nothing to do with funding the local church and it’s staff.

If the Nazarenes choose to support their pastors by teaching tithing as a principle of giving, and you will receive your salary from those offerings then it is imperative that you are a minister of integrity and you practice what you preach.

]]> By: Luke Oakes http://www.biblicalfoundations.org/blog/the-church/to-tithe-or-not-to-tithe-with-david-croteau/comment-page-1#comment-50728 Luke Oakes Fri, 09 May 2008 15:59:04 +0000 http://www.biblicalfoundations.org/?p=75#comment-50728 Dr. Andreas J. Köstenberger My name is Luke Oakes. I am a student at Nazarene Bible College, Colorado Springs, CO. I have had a district ministers license (in the Nazarene Church) for two years and am called to be a church planter and evangelist. As a fulltime student with no job and rely on my wife's income to pay the bills. Currently, we are only able to give 5% of our income to the church on a regular basis. We give with joy, and give more of our time and energy in response to the Spirit's leading. Recently however, I was directly asked by my credentials board if I tithed 10%. When I told them the truth, they immediately thought I wasn't qualified to be a pastor. They could see my potential, but they said I had a lack of faith and that "the Lord will never bless me until I fully tithe." Well, since the theology didn't sit well with me, I spent the next month reading the scriptures and placing those scriptures in context. I wholeheartedly agree that giving is biblical, but I do not know if I can support the concept of tithing. I think we are to give as the Spirit leads us to give. I am scared, the Holy Spirit is telling me that the church is making a mistake in making people give out of compulsion. I fear that this doctrine/opinion constitutes a lack of faith in God, and that He is able to provide for the church on His own. I fear that we have created an unnecessary barrier that has driven many people away from the church. I fear that in our attempt to worship in beautiful worship centers, that our stewardship is wasted on insurance and bills instead of reaching the lost. I fear that the church is living by the law that has been abolished. And I fear that God may be asking me to stand up and challenge this heresy. I am alone and scared. I am called to preach, yet I may never get a pulpit in the Nazarene church unless I suck it up and go with the flow. I have read some of your ideas on tithing. I am not looking for a sympathetic ear. I am truly trying to get to the bottom of tithing, so I can build a solid theology and stand on it. I hope to develop a relationship with you in the future. For more information about me, you can go to my website. Hope to hear from you soon. Luke Oakes (Evangelist) Website: http://OakesMinistries.org E-mail: Luke@OakesMinistries.org Dr. Andreas J. Köstenberger

My name is Luke Oakes. I am a student at Nazarene Bible College, Colorado Springs, CO. I have had a district ministers license (in the Nazarene Church) for two years and am called to be a church planter and evangelist. As a fulltime student with no job and rely on my wife’s income to pay the bills. Currently, we are only able to give 5% of our income to the church on a regular basis. We give with joy, and give more of our time and energy in response to the Spirit’s leading.

Recently however, I was directly asked by my credentials board if I tithed 10%. When I told them the truth, they immediately thought I wasn’t qualified to be a pastor. They could see my potential, but they said I had a lack of faith and that “the Lord will never bless me until I fully tithe.” Well, since the theology didn’t sit well with me, I spent the next month reading the scriptures and placing those scriptures in context. I wholeheartedly agree that giving is biblical, but I do not know if I can support the concept of tithing. I think we are to give as the Spirit leads us to give.

I am scared, the Holy Spirit is telling me that the church is making a mistake in making people give out of compulsion. I fear that this doctrine/opinion constitutes a lack of faith in God, and that He is able to provide for the church on His own. I fear that we have created an unnecessary barrier that has driven many people away from the church. I fear that in our attempt to worship in beautiful worship centers, that our stewardship is wasted on insurance and bills instead of reaching the lost. I fear that the church is living by the law that has been abolished. And I fear that God may be asking me to stand up and challenge this heresy.

I am alone and scared. I am called to preach, yet I may never get a pulpit in the Nazarene church unless I suck it up and go with the flow. I have read some of your ideas on tithing. I am not looking for a sympathetic ear. I am truly trying to get to the bottom of tithing, so I can build a solid theology and stand on it. I hope to develop a relationship with you in the future. For more information about me, you can go to my website. Hope to hear from you soon.

Luke Oakes
(Evangelist)

Website: http://OakesMinistries.org
E-mail: Luke@OakesMinistries.org

]]> By: jose http://www.biblicalfoundations.org/blog/the-church/to-tithe-or-not-to-tithe-with-david-croteau/comment-page-1#comment-46248 jose Mon, 31 Mar 2008 16:43:54 +0000 http://www.biblicalfoundations.org/?p=75#comment-46248 I attend a SBC. I was fairly active. I was brought up in a babtist church and read a lot of the bible. I thoought I understood the bible. It did not seem to teach modern tihthing as a requirement. I was asked to teach and on several occasions to fill in for the pastor on 3 rare occasions. At a teacher meeting it was statedthat if you were unwilling to to teach tithing as mandatory for christians that a person should not be ateacher. Along the way i accepted that the church new better than me about tithing, but after many years I came to the conclusion that I was correct originally and that my teachers and pastor were incorrect. One Day I decided to take a stand and when asked to fill in for a teacher, I said that someone had said I should not teach. He demanded who is it? I said you sir, and explained myself . I have not taught or preached since that day. I know that some church members know why and they talk about me. Sometimes I feel like the devil has won a victory in me but I cannt shake thw knwlede and the conviction that what is told to church members in my church is plain lies. jose I attend a SBC. I was fairly active. I was brought up in a babtist church and read a lot of the bible. I thoought I understood the bible. It did not seem to teach modern tihthing as a requirement. I was asked to teach and on several occasions to fill in for the pastor on 3 rare occasions. At a teacher meeting it was statedthat if you were unwilling to to teach tithing as mandatory for christians that a person should not be ateacher. Along the way i accepted that the church new better than me about tithing, but after many years I came to the conclusion that I was correct originally and that my teachers and pastor were incorrect. One Day I decided to take a stand and when asked to fill in for a teacher, I said that someone had said I should not teach. He demanded who is it? I said you sir, and explained myself . I have not taught or preached since that day. I know that some church members know why and they talk about me. Sometimes I feel like the devil has won a victory in me but I cannt shake thw knwlede and the conviction that what is told to church members in my church is plain lies. jose

]]> By: jeffrey lea http://www.biblicalfoundations.org/blog/the-church/to-tithe-or-not-to-tithe-with-david-croteau/comment-page-1#comment-43720 jeffrey lea Thu, 06 Mar 2008 22:19:28 +0000 http://www.biblicalfoundations.org/?p=75#comment-43720 IRT the tything article: Was not the Jewish Kindom's "tythe" an equivilent to our modern day income tax? Did it not only pay for feeding the poor, elderly, widows, orphans, but also to support the army, the priests, & Jewish royalty? Since we are a Christian nation and force our rich and working classes to give from 10% to 50%, why should we be giving ANOTHER 10% or more? The new testement's examples of giving are for needy church members near & afar, and for those who work full-time (ministers& evangelists). No other examples or instructions are given. Our modern greater-than-10% taxes pay for the former, thus we should only be encouraged to give to the later, which our government does not fund. Then what percent of the tythe should we split between the two? I would think that the greater would be for the more urgent needy christians. And that is already accomplished by our very large socialistic & humanitarian welfare sytem. The truth of the matter is, we build an unscriptural case to ask for another full tythe (or more) to fund HUGE church buildings, properties, gyms, schools systems, etc. These are not biblical or early church efforts. They met in public places when they could, and in homes and catacombs when they couldn't. I feel certain that our over-tything pressures run off more converts than the expensive properties, buildings, gyms, & schools bring in. I'm not saying that we cannot build expensive buildings and schools but we should never apply any pressure to do so. It should be completely volutarily without any reprisals (shunned from leadership roles & ministries). Rather ask only for a small percentage to cover the only thing our current taxes do not cover: financial support to those ministers & evangelists who serve full time. Paul said several times that he worked to support himself so that he would not be a burden. Our current church leaders not only ask for full time salaries for our large staffs, but also burden us beyond this and our current taxs to pay for expensive properties, buildings, gyms, schools, etc. One of the greatest lessons from the New Testement is to not hold on to Old Testament law nor create new law beyond what has been handed us by the Apostles. No one else. With Christian spirit, Jeff Lea IRT the tything article: Was not the Jewish Kindom’s “tythe” an equivilent to our modern day income tax? Did it not only pay for feeding the poor, elderly, widows, orphans, but also to support the army, the priests, & Jewish royalty? Since we are a Christian nation and force our rich and working classes to give from 10% to 50%, why should we be giving ANOTHER 10% or more? The new testement’s examples of giving are for needy church members near & afar, and for those who work full-time (ministers& evangelists). No other examples or instructions are given. Our modern greater-than-10% taxes pay for the former, thus we should only be encouraged to give to the later, which our government does not fund. Then what percent of the tythe should we split between the two? I would think that the greater would be for the more urgent needy christians. And that is already accomplished by our very large socialistic & humanitarian welfare sytem. The truth of the matter is, we build an unscriptural case to ask for another full tythe (or more) to fund HUGE church buildings, properties, gyms, schools systems, etc. These are not biblical or early church efforts. They met in public places when they could, and in homes and catacombs when they couldn’t. I feel certain that our over-tything pressures run off more converts than the expensive properties, buildings, gyms, & schools bring in. I’m not saying that we cannot build expensive buildings and schools but we should never apply any pressure to do so. It should be completely volutarily without any reprisals (shunned from leadership roles & ministries). Rather ask only for a small percentage to cover the only thing our current taxes do not cover: financial support to those ministers & evangelists who serve full time. Paul said several times that he worked to support himself so that he would not be a burden. Our current church leaders not only ask for full time salaries for our large staffs, but also burden us beyond this and our current taxs to pay for expensive properties, buildings, gyms, schools, etc. One of the greatest lessons from the New Testement is to not hold on to Old Testament law nor create new law beyond what has been handed us by the Apostles. No one else.

With Christian spirit, Jeff Lea

]]> By: David W. http://www.biblicalfoundations.org/blog/the-church/to-tithe-or-not-to-tithe-with-david-croteau/comment-page-1#comment-39631 David W. Tue, 05 Feb 2008 16:55:13 +0000 http://www.biblicalfoundations.org/?p=75#comment-39631 I have been struggling with this issue as well. We are a well enough off family, but with the world's economy (interest rates up on credit cards, etc.) we have been living paycheck to paycheck. We have not been giving at all, but I finally have an amount cut back enough in our budget we can give about 4-5% and do so with a "happy heart" as the Bible says without getting ourselves in more credit trouble. I feel as though since God commands us to be responsible with money, He would not want me to be so tied to the 10% of the OT that HE would want me to go into debt and endanger my family. I have been struggling with this issue as well. We are a well enough off family, but with the world’s economy (interest rates up on credit cards, etc.) we have been living paycheck to paycheck. We have not been giving at all, but I finally have an amount cut back enough in our budget we can give about 4-5% and do so with a “happy heart” as the Bible says without getting ourselves in more credit trouble. I feel as though since God commands us to be responsible with money, He would not want me to be so tied to the 10% of the OT that HE would want me to go into debt and endanger my family.

]]> By: Larry http://www.biblicalfoundations.org/blog/the-church/to-tithe-or-not-to-tithe-with-david-croteau/comment-page-1#comment-22251 Larry Thu, 06 Sep 2007 02:13:30 +0000 http://www.biblicalfoundations.org/?p=75#comment-22251 Hi: We are no longer under the Mosiac law, therefore, tithing was done away with, however, we still have the expenses related with our place of worship. There should be enough money donated to fully maintain the building, taxes, etc. Then there must be money set aside to help the widows, needy families and children, etc. and anyone how is down and out with no where to turn. We can no turn away our brothers and sisters. God went on to say about tithing, I do now want to put any further burden upon you!! Its the ministers that are pushing for the 10% tithing. Look at the wealthy television ministeries. They are always begging for money, some even tell us that God is going to call him home if tithing amounts is not met! How ridicilious that was. Sincerely, LR, in Tennessee Hi: We are no longer under the Mosiac law, therefore, tithing was done away with, however, we still have the expenses related with our place of worship. There should be enough money donated to fully maintain the building, taxes, etc. Then there must be money set aside to help the widows, needy families and children, etc. and anyone how is down and out with no where to turn. We can no turn away our brothers and sisters. God went on to say about tithing, I do now want to put any further burden upon you!! Its the ministers that are pushing for the 10% tithing. Look at the wealthy television ministeries. They are always begging for money, some even tell us that God is going to call him home if tithing amounts is not met! How ridicilious that was.

Sincerely, LR, in Tennessee

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