<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: The Drama of Doctrine</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.biblicalfoundations.org/theology/the-drama-of-doctrine/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.biblicalfoundations.org/blog/theology/the-drama-of-doctrine</link>
	<description>ALERT: Dr. Köstenberger’s blogs are now becoming available in Spanish. We will continue to add new posts as soon as they can be translated. Click on “Espanol” above</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 26 Apr 2010 02:55:50 -0700</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Jonathan P</title>
		<link>http://www.biblicalfoundations.org/blog/theology/the-drama-of-doctrine/comment-page-1#comment-87000</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan P</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 21:46:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.biblicalfoundations.org/?p=116#comment-87000</guid>
		<description>Dr. Kostenberger, 

I remembered running across this review in college. Two years later and after reading Vanhoozer (plus a gracious recollection and Google), it is very helpful.

Thanks, grace to you in Christ!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr. Kostenberger, </p>
<p>I remembered running across this review in college. Two years later and after reading Vanhoozer (plus a gracious recollection and Google), it is very helpful.</p>
<p>Thanks, grace to you in Christ!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Andreas Köstenberger</title>
		<link>http://www.biblicalfoundations.org/blog/theology/the-drama-of-doctrine/comment-page-1#comment-16892</link>
		<dc:creator>Andreas Köstenberger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jun 2007 12:13:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.biblicalfoundations.org/?p=116#comment-16892</guid>
		<description>This will have to be the last post in this interchange. Apology accepted - though then you reiterate most of the points already made in your previous post. I really don&#039;t think Kevin needs you to speak for him, or defend him; he is very capable of speaking for himself, and has done so very articulately in the response I have posted.

So, no need to be defensive on another&#039;s behalf; interacting on important issues is part of serious scholarship, and I believe both Kevin and I are focused on the issues, not each other. We have a very cordial relationship, and it is this relationship that allows us to interact on these matters frankly and openly.

And, naturally, in a review of this sort I am not going to focus on the things on which Kevin and I already agree (which are many; see &lt;em&gt;Whatever Happened to Truth?&lt;/em&gt; [Crossway, 2005], which I edited and which includes an essay by Kevin), but on questions which in my view need further dialogue.

Finally, my reference to the &quot;Epistle of Kevin&quot; was an attempt at humor; apparently, those who put KJV on the same level at which some people put &lt;em&gt;the&lt;/em&gt; KJV have a hard time handling any such humor when it comes to their hero! I, for one, am resolved to treat Kevin with the utmost respect, but not religious reverence.

Grace and peace,

AJK</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This will have to be the last post in this interchange. Apology accepted &#8211; though then you reiterate most of the points already made in your previous post. I really don&#8217;t think Kevin needs you to speak for him, or defend him; he is very capable of speaking for himself, and has done so very articulately in the response I have posted.</p>
<p>So, no need to be defensive on another&#8217;s behalf; interacting on important issues is part of serious scholarship, and I believe both Kevin and I are focused on the issues, not each other. We have a very cordial relationship, and it is this relationship that allows us to interact on these matters frankly and openly.</p>
<p>And, naturally, in a review of this sort I am not going to focus on the things on which Kevin and I already agree (which are many; see <em>Whatever Happened to Truth?</em> [Crossway, 2005], which I edited and which includes an essay by Kevin), but on questions which in my view need further dialogue.</p>
<p>Finally, my reference to the &#8220;Epistle of Kevin&#8221; was an attempt at humor; apparently, those who put KJV on the same level at which some people put <em>the</em> KJV have a hard time handling any such humor when it comes to their hero! I, for one, am resolved to treat Kevin with the utmost respect, but not religious reverence.</p>
<p>Grace and peace,</p>
<p>AJK</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: TripD</title>
		<link>http://www.biblicalfoundations.org/blog/theology/the-drama-of-doctrine/comment-page-1#comment-16762</link>
		<dc:creator>TripD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jun 2007 21:45:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.biblicalfoundations.org/?p=116#comment-16762</guid>
		<description>Andreas,

I never said nor implied that you were dishonest, only uncharitable or less than congenial.  

Moreover, I never said that this was an ad hominem attack.  Rather, I said it was a rhetorical strategy, that is, an attempt to exaggerate the dangers of a position by associating it with a heretical position.  And within that, I did question your motivation for which I do apologize as I had little insight into your intentions apart from your review.  I must say in my defense that there were several comments in your review that led me to believe there was a dismissive edge (e.g., the comment about a not so serious suggestion that Vanhoozer&#039;s notion of dramaturge came from the &quot;Epistle of Kevin.&quot;  I, at least, saw this as a way of suggesting Vanhoozer was not biblical, a critique that D. A. Carson has leveled in similar fashion).  But still, I shouldn&#039;t have assumed the worst.

I still think that it is unfair to link Vanhoozer with Ehrman.  Why?  Again, b/c their respective intentions are incompatible (the former seeks to uphold theological unity and biblical authority while the latter seeks to dismiss both as a myth born from political powerplays).  It&#039;s not a matter of whether their arguments bear similarities.  I&#039;m sure there are places where your methodology as an NT scholar has affinities with someone like Ehrman.  But I&#039;m sure you would find it quite unfair if for that reason someone likened you to him.  I agree with Jordan: Comparing Vanhoozer to Ehrman is a stretch.  

And I still do think that your mostly critical assessment (a) obscures what you do think is positive; and (b) does to Vanhoozer exactly what you accuse him of doing to Henry when you speak of how Vanhoozer&#039;s repeated negative characterization of Henry makes Henry out to be the villian more than he deserves.   

Thanks for the response though!  I&#039;ll be more careful in making hasty assumptions about your motivations; I should certainly extend to you the same charity I am asking you to give Vanhoozer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andreas,</p>
<p>I never said nor implied that you were dishonest, only uncharitable or less than congenial.  </p>
<p>Moreover, I never said that this was an ad hominem attack.  Rather, I said it was a rhetorical strategy, that is, an attempt to exaggerate the dangers of a position by associating it with a heretical position.  And within that, I did question your motivation for which I do apologize as I had little insight into your intentions apart from your review.  I must say in my defense that there were several comments in your review that led me to believe there was a dismissive edge (e.g., the comment about a not so serious suggestion that Vanhoozer&#8217;s notion of dramaturge came from the &#8220;Epistle of Kevin.&#8221;  I, at least, saw this as a way of suggesting Vanhoozer was not biblical, a critique that D. A. Carson has leveled in similar fashion).  But still, I shouldn&#8217;t have assumed the worst.</p>
<p>I still think that it is unfair to link Vanhoozer with Ehrman.  Why?  Again, b/c their respective intentions are incompatible (the former seeks to uphold theological unity and biblical authority while the latter seeks to dismiss both as a myth born from political powerplays).  It&#8217;s not a matter of whether their arguments bear similarities.  I&#8217;m sure there are places where your methodology as an NT scholar has affinities with someone like Ehrman.  But I&#8217;m sure you would find it quite unfair if for that reason someone likened you to him.  I agree with Jordan: Comparing Vanhoozer to Ehrman is a stretch.  </p>
<p>And I still do think that your mostly critical assessment (a) obscures what you do think is positive; and (b) does to Vanhoozer exactly what you accuse him of doing to Henry when you speak of how Vanhoozer&#8217;s repeated negative characterization of Henry makes Henry out to be the villian more than he deserves.   </p>
<p>Thanks for the response though!  I&#8217;ll be more careful in making hasty assumptions about your motivations; I should certainly extend to you the same charity I am asking you to give Vanhoozer.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Andreas Köstenberger</title>
		<link>http://www.biblicalfoundations.org/blog/theology/the-drama-of-doctrine/comment-page-1#comment-16722</link>
		<dc:creator>Andreas Köstenberger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jun 2007 17:58:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.biblicalfoundations.org/?p=116#comment-16722</guid>
		<description>Kevin did not take my statement as &lt;em&gt;ad hominem&lt;/em&gt;, so I think you can let things rest there. In fact, I think it is your attitude that is inappropriate when you imply that I am dishonest and question my motivation. For this you owe me an apology.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevin did not take my statement as <em>ad hominem</em>, so I think you can let things rest there. In fact, I think it is your attitude that is inappropriate when you imply that I am dishonest and question my motivation. For this you owe me an apology.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: TripD</title>
		<link>http://www.biblicalfoundations.org/blog/theology/the-drama-of-doctrine/comment-page-1#comment-16177</link>
		<dc:creator>TripD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2007 18:05:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.biblicalfoundations.org/?p=116#comment-16177</guid>
		<description>Andreas,

In re your response to Jordan:

But what sort of mileage were you hoping to gain out of placing Ehrman and Vanhoozer side-by-side.  I mean be honest here, this is a rhetorical move.  Even if you are right about this, I don&#039;t think it is at all charitable and congenial (as you said, &quot;I am a Vanhoozer fan&quot;) to lump someone who, by all accounts, intends only to make evangelical theology more faithful to Scripture with an unorthodox scholar.  

I&#039;m not sure what the motivation for this could be?  I guess if I were to be charitable, it would be that you really want to warn people of the danger.  But c&#039;mon, this man is an evangelical, not a rabid liberal critic.  Vanhoozer&#039;s and Ehrman&#039;s intentions couldn&#039;t be more divergent.  So here, I think this was inappropriate.  

Additionally, you say at the end that you are a &quot;Vanhoozer fan&quot; but you have given us almost no reasons why you would be such.  The bulk of your evaluative portion is criticism.  What good does this do anyone, other than scare people off.  Perhaps you are doing to Vanhoozer exactly what you think he does to Henry.  That is, you let criticism obscure any positive value.  So your brief declaration &quot;I&#039;m a Vanhoozer Fan&quot; is just about as worthless as Vanhoozer&#039;s attempt to temper his criticisms of Henry: they both fall on ears that have been deafened by the overwhelming negativity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andreas,</p>
<p>In re your response to Jordan:</p>
<p>But what sort of mileage were you hoping to gain out of placing Ehrman and Vanhoozer side-by-side.  I mean be honest here, this is a rhetorical move.  Even if you are right about this, I don&#8217;t think it is at all charitable and congenial (as you said, &#8220;I am a Vanhoozer fan&#8221;) to lump someone who, by all accounts, intends only to make evangelical theology more faithful to Scripture with an unorthodox scholar.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure what the motivation for this could be?  I guess if I were to be charitable, it would be that you really want to warn people of the danger.  But c&#8217;mon, this man is an evangelical, not a rabid liberal critic.  Vanhoozer&#8217;s and Ehrman&#8217;s intentions couldn&#8217;t be more divergent.  So here, I think this was inappropriate.  </p>
<p>Additionally, you say at the end that you are a &#8220;Vanhoozer fan&#8221; but you have given us almost no reasons why you would be such.  The bulk of your evaluative portion is criticism.  What good does this do anyone, other than scare people off.  Perhaps you are doing to Vanhoozer exactly what you think he does to Henry.  That is, you let criticism obscure any positive value.  So your brief declaration &#8220;I&#8217;m a Vanhoozer Fan&#8221; is just about as worthless as Vanhoozer&#8217;s attempt to temper his criticisms of Henry: they both fall on ears that have been deafened by the overwhelming negativity.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: stratkey</title>
		<link>http://www.biblicalfoundations.org/blog/theology/the-drama-of-doctrine/comment-page-1#comment-15868</link>
		<dc:creator>stratkey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2007 21:44:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.biblicalfoundations.org/?p=116#comment-15868</guid>
		<description>Great review.  Thanks for the clarification.  I&#039;m in the middle of DofD right now, and I&#039;m really enjoying this refreshing perspective.  It&#039;s nice to read this and to put what KJV is doing into a larger context. Thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great review.  Thanks for the clarification.  I&#8217;m in the middle of DofD right now, and I&#8217;m really enjoying this refreshing perspective.  It&#8217;s nice to read this and to put what KJV is doing into a larger context. Thanks!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://www.biblicalfoundations.org/blog/theology/the-drama-of-doctrine/comment-page-1#comment-15778</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2007 08:38:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.biblicalfoundations.org/?p=116#comment-15778</guid>
		<description>To the last comment: if &#039;propositions&#039; are the basis on which all other illocutions are founded, then this would seem to be a &#039;foundationalist&#039; epistemology. KJV clearly rejects foundationalism. So, yes KJV is &#039;postmodern&#039; in this regard, but really he is challenging the rules of the foundationalist/propositionalist game, as it were, when it comes to Biblical exegesis. Rather, (so far as I can tell) KJV affirms certain hermeneutic circles, where A depends on B and B depends on A. The point here, is that if you think propositions as such are the foundation for other illocutions, then you really could  work out exact and certain truth claims from Scripture. But if this were the case, why are there many diverse exegetes out in Christendom? It can&#039;t simply be because people don&#039;t adhere to propositions, rather, there are diverse contexts in which all illocutions occur, which explains diverse claims (Believer&#039;s Baptism or infant baptism, etc.).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To the last comment: if &#8216;propositions&#8217; are the basis on which all other illocutions are founded, then this would seem to be a &#8216;foundationalist&#8217; epistemology. KJV clearly rejects foundationalism. So, yes KJV is &#8216;postmodern&#8217; in this regard, but really he is challenging the rules of the foundationalist/propositionalist game, as it were, when it comes to Biblical exegesis. Rather, (so far as I can tell) KJV affirms certain hermeneutic circles, where A depends on B and B depends on A. The point here, is that if you think propositions as such are the foundation for other illocutions, then you really could  work out exact and certain truth claims from Scripture. But if this were the case, why are there many diverse exegetes out in Christendom? It can&#8217;t simply be because people don&#8217;t adhere to propositions, rather, there are diverse contexts in which all illocutions occur, which explains diverse claims (Believer&#8217;s Baptism or infant baptism, etc.).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dan Erickson</title>
		<link>http://www.biblicalfoundations.org/blog/theology/the-drama-of-doctrine/comment-page-1#comment-14951</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Erickson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 May 2007 15:18:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.biblicalfoundations.org/?p=116#comment-14951</guid>
		<description>Thanks for an excellent review.  I recall listening (on tape) to a brilliantlecture Vanhoozer gave about a dozen years ago explaining &quot;post-modernism.&quot;  I fear that he may be in danger of loosing the forest among the trees in his latest work. The biblical propositions concerning &quot;the Word made flesh&quot; are the foundation for the Christian meta-narrative which challenges post-modernism at its very core.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for an excellent review.  I recall listening (on tape) to a brilliantlecture Vanhoozer gave about a dozen years ago explaining &#8220;post-modernism.&#8221;  I fear that he may be in danger of loosing the forest among the trees in his latest work. The biblical propositions concerning &#8220;the Word made flesh&#8221; are the foundation for the Christian meta-narrative which challenges post-modernism at its very core.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Andreas Köstenberger</title>
		<link>http://www.biblicalfoundations.org/blog/theology/the-drama-of-doctrine/comment-page-1#comment-14945</link>
		<dc:creator>Andreas Köstenberger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 May 2007 13:48:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.biblicalfoundations.org/?p=116#comment-14945</guid>
		<description>I compared the logic of Vanhoozer&#039;s argument in one instance to that of Ehrman. Of course, they are very different in many respects. As I said, I am a Vanhoozer fan, but in that one respect, it seems to me, at least, that his logic resembles Ehrman&#039;s (I&#039;m not sure this is not intended, of course).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I compared the logic of Vanhoozer&#8217;s argument in one instance to that of Ehrman. Of course, they are very different in many respects. As I said, I am a Vanhoozer fan, but in that one respect, it seems to me, at least, that his logic resembles Ehrman&#8217;s (I&#8217;m not sure this is not intended, of course).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jim Hamilton</title>
		<link>http://www.biblicalfoundations.org/blog/theology/the-drama-of-doctrine/comment-page-1#comment-14940</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Hamilton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 May 2007 12:40:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.biblicalfoundations.org/?p=116#comment-14940</guid>
		<description>Great review!

Jim</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great review!</p>
<p>Jim</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
